P400 Electrics

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Description	Lamborghini part number	OEM Manufacture part number	additional info	alternate part number	approx cost
alternator, 12 volt	ME-02811	Bosch Bosch number alternator complete - 35amp P400 0 120 400 547 brush holder plate 1 124 336 017 carbon brush set  - S29 1 127 014 014 diode(-) 1 127 320 035 heat sink assy.(+) 1 125 715 051 diode(+) 1 127 320 025 exciter diode plate 1 121 099 007 exciter diode 0 270 000 009 stator winding 1 125 045 000 rotor 1 124 034 010 belt pulley fan 1 126 610 025 bearing, drive end - 6303 R - 17x47x14 1 120 905 525 bearing, slip-ring end - 6201 2RS - 12x32x10 1 120 905 102 capacitor B+ 0 290 800 012	0 120 400 547 Woods Electric 1120 025 002-plate S29- brush 1125 824 015
alternator, 12volt		Bosch Bosch number alternator complete - 55amp P400S 0 120 400 644 brush holder plate 1 124 336 066 carbon brush set  1 127 014 009 diode(-) 1 127 320 035 heat sink assy.(+) 1 125 715 051 diode(+) 1 127 320 025 exciter diode plate 1 121 099 007 exciter diode 0 270 000 009 stator winding 1 125 045 000 rotor 1 124 034 022 belt pulley fan 1 126 610 025 bearing, drive end - 6303 R - 17x47x14 1 120 905 533 bearing, slip-ring end - 6201 2RS - 12x32x10 1 120 905 102 capacitor B+ 0 290 800 012
alternator drive seal	GN-03712		22 x 40 x 7mm seal		$15
starter motor	ME-04334 1604334	Bosch Bosch number actual observed starter complete, Bosch 0 001 354 101 ? 0 001 359 700 carbon brush set 1 007 014 10 spring, brush pressure 2 004 652 032 armature 2 004 004 051 field coils 1+ 2 2 004 114 117 field coils 3 + 4 2 004 114 116 drive with pinion 2 006 209 223 9 tooth,  AL68/2595V, 711, Germany drive-end frame 2 005 824 445 AL68/2882 bearing, drive end 2 000 301 000 commutator-end  frame 2 005 854 007 bearing, commutator end 2 000 301 009 solenoid 0 331 401 006 0 331 401 006,Bosch, Germany 12v, 710	Bosch made in Germany AL68/12C89 JD->12V1,8PS 712      4208 0 001 359 700
voltage regulator	ME-01337 1601337	Bosch RS AD1/14 v,  0 190 601 006
spark plugs	CN-01338 8810001	Bosch W235-P1 gap-0.35mm	Champion N-6Y
battery, 12volt	ME-03790
distributor	ME-02984	Magneti Marelli - S 85 C   -  9°   30'  , 7J
seal, distributor shaft	GN00466	47 x 35 x 7	35 x 47 x 7 mm seal	CR 13938
coil, bobina	ME-01335	Magneti Marelli w/resistor and bracket		400GT, Jarama
connector, spark plug	ME-05393	Bosch #0356100014, made in France, woodscrew	62mm long	Volkswagen, Beru
cap, seal  for connector	ME-05218	(not shown) black rubber , seals plug wire to screw on Bosch connector
wire seperator  2	ME-01566	rubber grommet, 38mm OD, 16mm thick, 3mm depth groove, radiused edges
wire seperator 4	ME-01565	rubber grommet
wire seperator 6	ME-01564	rubber grommet
bracket, wire seperator	ME-01567 ME-04421	brazed steel assembly, 3mm steel wire, 1.5mm sheet steel flag ends
wire, spark plug	AC-01324	7mm copper core, black

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additional resources- http://www.kingsborne.com/index.htm

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notes from P400S parts book -
starting with engine #2769
ME-06091 distributor complete replaces ME-02984

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Miura spark wire bracket
P400 Fiamm horn set , showing bases and bracket
P400 Bosch #0356100014, made in France
yes made in France

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electronic ignition for  Miura (notes from VLG jan 2005)
I think you can find good local solutions all over the world (or nearly). There are several solutions in the US with Electro-Motive, MSD, Perma-Tune. I live in France and there is a pretty good solution provided by Multic (close to Chartres). From my standpoint, electronic ignition is really worth it: starting is easier, the car runs more smoothly, no more settings… return on investment in 10 000 km approx. or less.
However, there are mainly 3 families of solutions for electronic ignition (increasing complexity and also increasing price) and it’s better to have an idea of what you want beforehand, because you can get really lost and not understand the difference in price. Hereafter, a short summary of these 3 families of electronic ignition systems.
1) With break points and distributor(s)
You get an electronic module whose main purpose is to have a low current going through your break points; hence, you get 2 major benefits:
-          your break points do not get worn out after 5000 km (you need to install new ones before installing the electronic module), they should last at least 50 000 km
-          you have a constant dwell over all the rpm range, hence you have the same spark energy from low revs to high revs
2) Breakerless and with distributor(s)
You get a similar electronic module as in 1) and a set of magnetic / optical sensors that replace the break points; so, instead of getting the firing signal through the break points, you get it from the sensors. You get all the benefits as described above, plus:
-          more precise and regular firings (in 1) if the setting of the break points is not perfect, the electronic module is not going to change it)
-          since there is no more mechanical parts for the firing signal, you do not have to replace anything at any time
3) Breakerless and distributorless
This is the best system, also the most expensive (this is what you have today on Murcielago or Gallardo). You get a more sophisticated electronic module (usually it is programmable and you can set-up your spark timing curve from your PC) + a set of sensors + a timing system to be added on the flywheel (usually) + mini-coils per spark-plugs. Of course, you get all the benfits of 1) and 2) plus
-          more accurate spark timing (in 1) and 2), the timing is provided by the mechanical parts ie spring and mass of the distributor)
-          ability to change the timing curve, depending on conditions,
-          ability to adjust timing curve to additional sensors (knock, temperature, ...)
-          ability to add an electronic rev limiter (can also exist in 1) and 2))
-       .. capabilites are limited by your imagination and your time!
Have a good installation!  Julien Mazerolle  Espada 9126

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I have a fair amount of experience with the ignition systems on older Ferraris, Maseratis and Lamborghinis. I don't really have much of a problem with breaker points ignition systems and have found that many attempts to up-grade from breaker points bring other problems. Correctly set-up ignition points can last 5,000 and even 10,000 miles. Also, using the points as "signaling" devices only, doesn't deal with many other deficiencies with the distributor.

We have an old Sun distributor testing machine. It's about 50 years old but it's an indispensable aid in setting up distributors. Most of the older Lamborghinis that come in for "tune-up" work have, at best, improperly set-up distributors and at worst totally worn-out distributors. Most of them have incorrect or non functioning ignition advance mechanisms and the dual ignition points ( 4 points sets in some) rarely share the same dwell angle settings and are usually not synchronized correctly. You can tinker with electronic ad-on systems but if the advance curve or points synchronization are not right you are wasting your time, effort and money. We have become convinced, after over-hauling many distributors that had no signs of previous disassembly, that many of the Marelli distributors left the Lamborghini factory with incorrect springs and related parts in the ignition advance systems, The cars often had "flat-spots" when accelerating which was blamed on the carburetors.

Another problem with attempts at upgrading parts of the ignition system is that often the energy from MSD-type components is too much for the rest of the old style ignition parts causing rotors, distributor caps and spark-plug/coil cables to fail. One solution is to replace the whole system. We have modified MSD Billet Distributors to fit. In that case you can run all compatible parts such as rotor, cap, coil, amplifier and spark plug cables. MSD even sells an electronic adjustable ignition advance computer so you can disable the advance weights.

Even with the full MSD ignition system though, there are still problems. One is that above 3,000 RPM, MSD ignition amplifiers revert to single spark ignition. Except for emissions testing, what good is Multiple Spark Discharge if it goes back to single spark discharge just when you start driving on the fun side of the tachometer? Also any change or fluctuation in cam timing or lash in a distributor gear-set directly affects ignition timing control.

The best system to use is a crank-fired set-up such as what  Electromotive sells. The long duration spark is initiated by a rigidly mounted trigger wheel on the end of the crankshaft. The spark goes directly from the coil pack to the spark plug and a fully programmable computer controls timing and spark duration. (Plug or cover the hole and throw the distributor on the shelf with your other relics.) All you need is a lap-top to make adjustments. Some time on a good chassis dyno would help to get the maximum performance out of your ignition system.
Wil de Groot feb 2005

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